We have already turned the pages of the calendar where gender holidays are marked in red, but has humankind turned the pages of being free from gender stereotypes? That is a rhetorical question.
Long before the term agender was coined, back in the 1970s-1980s, musicians, and in particular those who played rock music which was traditionally associated with something ultra-masculine and brutal, began to do all sorts of things with their appearance, thus protesting, whether consciously or not, against the common expectations of what an artist and an ordinary mortal should look like on stage and in everyday life.
Kiss, wore high platform boots. Steven Tyler of Aerosmith, who wore a tight pinkish leopard print lace-up one day (in fact, he took a fancy to leopard prints in all their forms), a ruched blouse or a floor-length white gown on another. Jimi Hendrix with a pink frill wouldn’t be out of place in this company either. The Rolling Stones, with their passion for all things bright and flowery, conventionally feminine… Mick Jagger in a flower-embroidered jacket or a-la Victorian shirt with balloon sleeves and a basque – oh man, that alone says a lot… Or David Bowie and his numerous looks, such as the androgynous “man who fell to Earth”, Ziggy Stardust, Aladdin Sane, and so on. Remember the famous portrait of Grace Jones in a suit jacket, with a cigarette in her mouth? Part of the same story. In the 1990s-2000s, it was Marilyn Manson who personified visual and gender nonconformism; in our days, it is Arca, whose appearance both scares and fascinates, as well as Sophie, who passed away recently.
This unusual reflection and analysis of gender and its limits is continued by the musicians who have recorded, in collaboration with SRSLY, endless generative tracks based on Mubert’s technology, which creates a musical flow from samples using AI algorithms (which is also very much in tune with gender neutrality). You can listen to them in Mubert’s app; every stream will change when restarted but you can save the combination you like, by either adding it to Favs or sharing on social media.
We are celebrating the launch of our collaboration with a series of longreads and by talking to the authors of these samples about gender division, sexual energy, “female sound”, “male instruments”, and “neutral genres”.
Alexey, Founder and CEO, Mubert (A)
My background is in jazz. My musical career is all about improvisation. And my entire experience proves just one thing: The sky’s the limit. Two minutes of jamming, and you no longer notice or distinguish between people: you are in the flow where you don’t care whether there’s a man or a woman, a child or an adult next to you. There’s nothing left, just a sticky pleasant flow.
People who socialize together and people who play music together, are in two completely different types of relationships on an energetic level. And often there is some kind of gender-free sexuality that opens up in a musical collaboration. It seems to me, two people playing music together or even listening to music together, is one of the coolest things to do. Sometimes it’s better than having sex. A musical instrument can completely open a person up to you, because they give you their energy so freely and you receive it just as freely, there is an exchange between you. This is why I have only ever had positive experiences, the other-way-round experience of some sort of de-genderization.
Two people who love each other will make much better music: they really can create something incredible. In this respect, music is not about gender. In general, it’s very difficult to link music to gender, because it operates with other vibrations, other energies. As soon as people start creating music together, gender becomes irrelevant.
When it comes to the outer covering, I think that the more masculine you are, the cooler music you play and the bolder energy you have inside, the easier it is for you to wear a woman’s blouse or go out in a dress.
I wish there wasn’t a girls-not-allowed kind of boundary. By the way, I have come across this on more than one occasion. I have often heard: “Let’s not have a girl in the group.” And I’ve said: “Let’s add her.” Oddly enough, no matter how much I advocate for the absence of these boundaries, I still have some kind of division in my head. It’s complicated: there’s such a strong and deep connection between people who compose music together that it’s very similar to having sex. Is this agender? It looks like music erases the boundaries between the genders, but it also contains a powerful sexual energy that can forge a very close connection..
Pavel, Co-Founder and Music Director, Mubert (Dancing Teeth)
I’m the Music Director at Mubert, and I’ve been working on this project with the guys since 2017. I’ve been into music all my life: I play the piano, do deejaying and sound engineering, but in the last decade I’ve been more interested in music-meets-IT management.
I’ve always found gender stereotypes embarrassing; however, I’ve also been guided by them for a long time, which has mostly led to disappointment. There is clearly both male and female in every person, but now, for example, I don’t quite understand what “male” or “female” means. We are now spending quite a lot of time online, and the distinction is really blurred there: you simply become like a pure consciousness, broadcasting your thoughts, and it doesn’t matter who you are.
I often do HR for the company. We work with hundreds of musicians who create sounds, which are later uploaded into the algorithm by artificial intelligence. When I employ people, I don’t care what gender the person is, and I guess it’s obvious that it can’t be otherwise. Unfortunately, not everyone thinks this way: my colleagues and female friends have often heard something like “It’s not a bad track for a girl”. It’s strange and not nice.
For example, society treats female singers decently, but a woman sitting down at a sequencer raises eyebrows immediately. When you work with this equipment and DAW (Digital Audio Workstation), there’s a lot of engineering; this is probably the reason why most people typically associate this work with men. Such attitudes are particularly strong among developers: there is a critical lack of women. We are constantly looking for developers, and we haven’t had the opportunity to interview a single female developer yet. I wish we also had a balance here.
Gender boundaries are rather conventional, as are the boundaries of various musical genres. In general, they are simply means of expression. Those who benefit from such a division and who are comfortable living with it don’t want to give it up. I think that eventually everyone will relax and stop worrying about “masculine” and “feminine” and running roughshod over the opinions of others; people will figure out what they need and what they don’t need. I am used to living this way, and I expect the same with respect to myself.
Liza, composer, music editor, Mubert (OKEANYREKI)
I am a composer and a sound producer. I’ve been involved in music for 15 years, and it just so happens that most of my colleagues have been men. So, I’ve seen a lot of this negative stuff over the years.
The creative process is like torture when it’s accompanied by constant criticism of your emotions and opinions (“Why are you so sad? Smile,” “Are you having PMS?” “Why are you doing it again?”), plus the unwillingness to speak in professional jargon because I’m not supposed to understand it. Often when I try working with people, I bump into a wall of flirtation and sugary compliments behind which lurks the devaluation of me as a professional.
Now I take care to keep away from people who pull me down and make me doubt myself. Usually I can tell such people from their first two or three phrases. “Hello there, beautiful, let me save you and do some beats for you.”
Now, there are more and more women in my professional community, as well as wonderful male musicians who support me, share their knowledge, and defer to my opinion.
I was born a woman, and I accept it. But I feel so confined in a traditional “female” role. It doesn’t reflect my interests, my way of dressing, or my interaction with my partner. Everyone understands femininity in their own way.
I was one of the strongest opponents to only women making the track (the one mentioned in the introduction. – Note by SRSLY). I take umbrage with that kind of rhetoric: “Let’s have a separate sandbox for the disadvantaged, where they can do whatever they want.” This only adds credence to the belief that we are not equal in our abilities and we cannot be on the same stage.
You can also fight back in different ways. I really don’t support aggressive activists because aggression begets aggression. But I understand why this happens: it was the same with women’s rights at the very beginning. When the imbalance is too strong, it gives rise to ultra-radical attitudes, the desire to exert some crazy force, and that is the only way to move the stone. But, when the stone has already been moved, the next stage begins, and tactics must change. One can put the hammers aside. I’m all for paying attention to where and what can be improved and for giving more positive examples: we should shape an image of what we’re striving for, rather than point fingers.
In general, I’m more concerned with the topic of gender binary; to me, it seems a monstrously outdated perception of the world and a restriction of individual freedom of expression. In a world where everything is either black or white, there is no room for diversity of forms and ways of perception. I’ve met some extremely gentle male musicians and I’ve met women who make f@#cking crazy tracks. While stereotypes are convenient for the brain, because it’s a ready-made solution for all occasions. In fact, there is no connection between gender and expression in creativity.
I’m inspired by successful female producers. I started discovering incredibly talented and intelligent women in music, like Imogen Heap, who produced and mixed her own albums, and then invented the MIDI controller in the form of a glove that allows you to control music with gestures. This is an example of a woman who is not young or sexualized, yet she is so on trend, she’s top-notch. When I saw this, I thought: “Damn, I can do it too.” Stop playing on your attractiveness and waiting for help; instead, bring your ideas to life and learn to do things that seem too difficult. And most importantly think; “I can do it!”
Some people follow the rules and play “traditional” gender roles, while others start digging deeper, searching for their truth and strength, a kind of creative aggression. After all, the other side of this aggression is quite positive: it is the assertion of your boundaries, the desire to be noticed. Creativity is also always inherently aggressive; it’s just not the destructive type of aggression. When you take this path, you discover completely different facets of yourself, and usually they have nothing to do with what is accepted as the standard in a conservative society.
I wish all people had a choice to show who they really are and to be true to themselves and the world. Refusing to worship gender is very liberating. Like any aspect of identity, it is a very flexible, ever-changing thing.
Natasha, DJ, sound producer, music editor, Mubert (Natasha Bai)
I can’t say I’ve ever had problems, but of course I’ve encountered stereotyping and preconceived notions because of gender. Something along the lines of “a girl at the turntable” – I always joke about that, it’s a personal meme of mine. But now I don’t come across it as often as I used to; I think it’s because there are more women who are DJs/musicians in general now. When I started deejaying back in 2013, I was told that girls didn’t do that kind of thing. However, that was eight years ago in Novosibirsk. One day I posted my track online and someone messaged me: “Wow, cool, incredible, I didn’t know girls were capable of that.” The guy clearly liked it and he clearly believed, perhaps even subconsciously, that girls are not capable of anything.
There were (and still are) times when I was invited somewhere just because I’m a woman. I got messages like: “We need some pretty girl, and we decided to invite you.” On the one hand, I’m glad; on the other hand, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Sometimes I get a message like: “Bring a girl with you.” Why should it be a girl? I might have some talented male friends whom I can play with.
Maybe some of the women aren’t completely self-confident yet, but I already have a feeling that we are getting into the same position as men, step by step. Ten years ago there were very few female DJs, far fewer than there are now. I think a lot of that change started thanks to Nina Kraviz: she showed us that it was possible. I don’t know whether she breaks stereotypes or confirms them; that’s a different story.
Personally, I used to have a feeling that guys didn’t take us seriously. Now I see that there are a lot of cool women who play, and we are being taken seriously. Sometimes we team up: there’s, for example, the DK Baby party, which four of us do, where we kind of mock sexist stereotypes about women.
But at the same time I believe that music is such a powerful energy, including sexual energy, and you can’t undo gender and sexuality in it. And you don’t need to, because energy is an important message. I feel like a woman, I feel feminine sexual energy in me, I position myself as a woman, and I love being a woman, but I want to avoid the prefix ”female” before the word “DJ”. And when I see another woman at the turntable, I feel the same feminine energy from her, which is, by the way, quite a broad term, as this energy, as well as masculine energy, can be very different. But, there’s no escaping from that, and I don’t want to escape from that, because it’s part of me; my energy, just like the energy of many other people, is driven by my gender. But this doesn’t suggest that I’m behind the times or prejudiced against a DJ or a musician because of their gender. If someone feels differently, OK. There are a lot of examples of transgender people like Honey Dijon or Sophie (R.I.P.), and they also have their own sexual energy. How to interpret it is a whole other story.
I’m a person who believes that everything has a right to exist, and if other people can be who they are, so can I.
Ian, DJ, sound producer (Ian Lapa)
I’ve never had a problem with it and it’s not a sore point for me, but I think that music is basically an agender concept, and there is nothing that can divide it into genders. When people make their music, they don’t think of it as female or male. I don’t think about that at all, I just bring my tunes out into the world. They can sound brutal, or they can sound soft. The same goes for appearance: a person just has to look and act the way they feel comfortable to feel good about themselves. I am fully aware of who I am, and I don’t set boundaries for myself or worry about what others might think. It’s not worth it, because all people really care about is themselves, and you’re still going to worry.
In general, I think that if a person behaves in a masculine or feminine way, then they have some kind of transition in their head. It might be the result of either the complexes they have developed or some stereotypical roles that they see around them and that society imposes on them.
Music is essentially a very thorny path for both men and women. For a very long time, you have to prove what you can do before people take notice and start inviting you. And it’s like that everywhere, it’s not just about the electronic music I compose.
Diana, musician, sound producer (Rosemary Loves a Blackberry)
There is now a certain trend of dispelling myths and stereotypes about women in music, and people guided by good intentions and initiatives do strange things like exclusively female lineups for the 8th of March or female sound mixes, which are recorded by women only. I think it just emphasizes and highlights the difference.
I guess that the profession of musician, like any other profession, is gender-free. It doesn’t matter at all whether you’re a man, woman, or non-binary. Ages ago I was attending a master class with Cindy Blackman, a drummer who played for Lenny Kravitz and many others… She was asked by the audience: How come she’s a woman and plays drums? And Cindy said that the drum set didn’t care who was playing.
Take me, for example. I’m also a drummer. The drums are heavy: you don’t have to carry the drum and the set itself every time, but there is a standard set of instruments that you have to carry with you to a gig or rehearsal, and its total weight is about 15 kilograms. When I first started playing, I didn’t have enough money to take a taxi to the club, so I took the subway with all this stuff. It was so hard, and invariably by the time I arrived, I was already tired. Of course, men have an advantage in this respect because they are physiologically stronger, but this does not apply to musicianship.
In general, when I started learning to play the drums, I faced certain prejudices like: “Why do you need it? You’d better sing or play the violin, it’s a girl’s instrument.” But at that time I really wanted to play the drums, and I didn’t understand why I was being forced into playing an instrument I wasn’t interested in. Now I sing, compose electronic music, and play the drums, of course.
I don’t care who composed or played the music, a man or a woman. Men can compose very aggressive music, and they can compose super gentle and sensual music, just like women can compose brutal and harsh music. It doesn’t depend on gender. There is, for example, Рharmakon, a woman who makes hard noise music, real industrial music, or Group A, also hard industrial music composed by two Japanese women.
Andrei, DJ, sound producer (Moonoton)
I don’t know to what degree the problem of gender stereotypes affects me, but I think women suffer more from it: they’re met with a dismissive attitude, like “Can you really do it?” Female singers are more or less spared but not composers. And if a woman wants to work with the computer, everyone is like, she will never be able to do it. It seems that women have to prove more often that they can do everything themselves, and they can do it well.
I compose and play electronic music, and I haven’t heard any negative stuff because of my appearance. I’m not a frontman with everyone’s eyes on me, and I don’t dress provocatively as I haven’t had any desire to. But I can easily imagine that people have to put up with such attitudes because they look or behave in an unusual way. There is, for example, Antony Hegarty, a transgender woman who wears dresses and uses makeup. Does it really matter if she sings beautifully? But I don’t know if it’s right to advocate universal neutrality: there are hetero male and female singers, and these are also their images, their identities. Everything has a right to exist, and no one should persecute anyone for it.
I think a lot of Nina Kraviz’s success is due to the fact that her image doesn’t match the music she plays. This is cool, this is her thing: her music is so full of energy and so dark, the type of music guys like to dance to. Of course, there is no such thing as a 100% male or female audience, but the trend is obvious.
By the way, music where the audience is evenly mixed is probably neutral, because there is no imbalance to either side.
And in some genres there is. I can see it myself: when I play some harder music, the audience on the dance floor is about 70 percent guys. Or vice versa: I change the style, and the audience is mostly girls. I don’t know how to explain that. I don’t think that anybody intentionally makes music only for guys or only for girls – people just express themselves. There is a kind of distinction, although not a forced one. Maybe certain frequencies are disliked by some, but pleasing to others, for purely physiological reasons along with some other, psychological ones, for example. This issue is understudied, so it can be simply called a taste for now.
Sasha, DJ, sound producer (Errortica)
On the whole, I don’t see any harassment in the profession among my colleagues, let alone my audience. A long time ago someone said about me: “Of course, I knew that women have shitty taste in music, but this is too much…” But this was just a one-off. To me, music is either talented or not talented, and there is no point in dividing it based on any criteria, such as male/female, skin color, age, weight, and the like; you’re either moved by what a certain person does, or you’re not. If the organizers and people like you, they will invite you; when they stop liking you, they will stop inviting you. It’s as simple as that, and it’s even strange for me to talk about it at all.
Maybe I simply live in an accepting environment in St. Petersburg, where everyone loves each other, and outside there is thrash and aggression. But where I am, people just advocate creativity. I’m more interested in the contents, the outer covering is merely a nice addition. In general, heteronormativity is already considered something akin to mauvais ton; everyone has come to realize that there is nothing wrong if a woman wears a man’s suit or works in a “man’s” profession. When, for example, the first female bands, such as The Runaways with Joan Jett, Jefferson Airplane or Shocking Blue, who composed Venus, started to emerge and conquer the world, everyone suddenly forgot that rock was a male genre.
Of course, there is feminine or masculine energy in art, but they are also present in each person in different proportions. For example, Claude Debussy was a composer with the most airy vision, and not every woman is capable of such sensuality. But this perception is again based on stereotypes. The emotion that the composer felt when they created their artwork is much more important in music.
Ksyusha, musician, sound producer (Kruchinski)
When I played drums in a band in my town, I used to hear strange things all the time when I was going to the venue, and I would catch people glancing in my direction. I try my best to maintain a professional approach to what I do, so I buy good equipment. I remember once when I was setting everything up and hanging the “hardware”, the sound engineer said to me: “Well, did your daddy buy you everything?” What do you mean? Do you mean I can’t buy it myself?
I’ve often found myself in a situation like that. No one really believed in me as a good musician; everyone treated me with a certain amount of prejudice. Until I started to play. And then: “Oh, you play OK, you’re as good as the guys.” Anyway, are there women’s instruments and men’s instruments?
Everything changed when I moved to Moscow: there is much less of this attitude here. Probably because I keep company with the types of people where this is non-existent.
Despite the fact that I don’t focus on gender and just feel like a musician, I think I carry an important message as a woman going on stage. The composer Pauline Oliveros wrote a very good essay about how women need to be seen in order for others to understand that we can do it.
Lena, singer, songwriter (Lenamerkulova)
Of course, gender-based division has always been present in my musical experience. I can’t call it unpleasant. It’s just that there is a kind of inherent prejudice, which later transforms into astonishment, but this quickly passes, and then work or communication is on an equal footing. I’m rather used to it.
Women are always outnumbered by men in the areas relating to production, mixing, and studio work, for historical reasons, I guess. I have a story about my friend in Yekaterinburg, who unsuccessfully tried to find a job as a sound engineer and wasn’t hired just because she was a girl and “could not carry heavy equipment back and forth”. No one even so much as looked at her qualifications. It’s not really about art, but about men’s and women’s professions. If we’re talking about intellectual and emotional labor, which in essence music is, we are certainly equal here.
It would be stupid to deny gender as a phenomenon. The question is how to deal with it. I think we are all beautiful in our differences and perfectly complement and balance each other. And you have to accept the fact that anyone, regardless of gender, wants to be able to express themselves and make their presence known to the world. This is the essence of art: to leave an imprint, to say “I am”.
I like seeing more and more women who do production on their own right now. In addition, the process itself has become simpler, and the entry threshold to the music industry has become much lower. I believe that stereotypes will eventually fade away, and you won’t have to prove anything to anyone. All you can do is just grow, learn, improve and enjoy what you do. I think your professionalism will speak for you.
Vlad, musician, sound producer (Baby Angel)
I had my own band when I was in high school and university. It was called MODNYTSA, kind of a local brand well known in Yekaterinburg. We were in a typical regional setting; we made sound engineers feel embarrassed at our gigs because we looked a bit strange (in fact, we looked cool): we used eyeliner and mascara and always fretted over what to wear (you can see that judging by the band’s name), and I did notice sidelong glances a couple of times. But that was it. I wasn’t offended; rather, all of us were laughing at it. All in all, I am probably from quite a privileged part of the musical community and this is why I don’t have any experience in this regard. But I still often hear or read in social media stories of the women I know, about a perception that a woman cannot produce or mix music on her own, that is, do all the super technical stuff. And people are often so surprised when it turns out she can. It has nothing to do with gender, only with your head and your hands. Grimes proved that about a decade ago: she mixed her first releases on her own. I think our perception of this will also change over time. In general, I guess people are not evil and they think and say things out of ignorance – they don’t want to offend anyone.
Major electronic music festivals now have a rule: there should be 50/50 men and women in the lineup. And I often came across comments on Youtube saying that a woman was invited to play at a festival because she is a woman, not because she plays great. Hell no. Mediocre people get to play at festivals on very rare, exceptional occasions; these things have nothing to do with each other.
I guess there are some genres that are mostly associated with men. Rock, for example. First of all, its’ Jimi Hendrix or Jim Morrison and only then comes Janis Joplin. But this genre died in the 2000s, unfortunately. Rap is also a super masculine genre. Even if you take new-school rap, there’s Princess Nokia and a few more girls who are famous, but you can count them on the fingers of one hand. Still, most rappers are guys. It’s like rock stepped back and let rap take its place. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s because both rock and rap were and are made by post-teenagers, who have lots of masculine energy.
Gleb, sound producer (Raumskaya)
I wanted to know more about gender-related issues because of my love for the music of Arca and Sophie. I wanted a deeper insight into their world, but I didn’t have enough knowledge. My attempts to learn who is called what nowadays have led to information overload, and I get lost in it. But I realized one thing: everyone has a right to their own opinion, and there is no single truth.
Creativity doesn’t have to fit into a framework, it’s all about freedom. And if you have a need to talk about your gender in your music, then do it. Everyone has their own colors. For me, it’s interesting to discover the music of an author through the lens of their personality and vice versa. I think music is inseparable from personality. And personality is inseparable from gender. In many cases, gender is what determines our behavior, our emotions. I compose music about my emotions and it’s often therapy for me.
Nastya, sound producer (Buranko)
In my reality, creativity and music in particular have no gender. When fighting against stereotypes, everyone is free to use the most relevant tools or to refuse to take part in the process at all. I choose to do what I love with as much involvement and dedication as possible, to grow, to get better, or at least to go for it.
I haven’t come across any negative stuff related to gender division in the music field and, based on my extensive experience in TV and video production, I know perfectly well how lucky I am. I took a music production course at Moscow Music School; at that time, the course was supervised by the wonderful guys from Monoleak (@monoleak). They managed to create an absolutely safe and comfortable environment in this respect.
Now, as far as music is concerned, I keep in touch with my former classmates, professors, and the PEER label (@moscowpeer) founded by one of the supervisors, Fyodor Pereverzev.
Lena, BizDev Mubert (Helenmubert)
Music is my hobby. It’s hard to talk about inequality, but it has always seemed to me that in the world of art the social “framework” is the most blurred. In my profession, there is a division, although it is not based on gender differences, but rather on personal qualities, such as the degree of risk tolerance and the desire to take responsibility for your decisions, which contribute to the common goal. Then it is only a question of your own strength: if you are confident in yourself, in your professional competence and you play by the rules, the gender division will no longer be a problem, but will rather become a competitive advantage.
I think music is the most intimate form of art, so it would be silly to divide it into genders: the reason for any division is not stereotypes, but the egos of the people around you. You can lose yourself in the pursuit of public opinion; anyway, it’s easier to put on headphones. I’ve been inspired by Marilyn Manson all my life. It’s very difficult to find a single message in his work. This man is an experimentalist who has never been afraid to try new musical styles and daring images, in other words, to break those very “stereotypes”.
Arina, sound producer (Arina)
I’ve been dealing with the gender identity issue for quite a long time, so now I think less about how impactful it is and how it resonates in the perception of those around me. I have quite a few friends from the LGBT community, and these people can have dramatically different goals and lifestyles: some of them want a family, they want to live up to social standards, while others try to show their uniqueness in everything.
Speaking about the music industry and deejaying in particular, I can say that more than once I’ve noticed some stereotypical thinking among the people who engage with the creative industry mainly as consumers: for example, the belief that if a DJ is a woman, her talent should be defined not so much by her cool music selection and skills as by her cup size. But I think all these stereotypes are becoming a thing of the past pretty quickly, and we are now more tolerant towards each other.
Needless to say, I have personally come across stereotypical opinions about the music industry. For example, I didn’t think there were many women among techno-producers. Now, with experience and a lot of listening, I’ve come to the conclusion that the hardest techno is made by women, they are more aggressive in principle and they play darker music. Take Paula Temple, for example. She has such hot techno…
With respect to negative aspects of gender issues, I can say that there is now a certain “fashion” to be a minority, a “fashion” to be different. I once heard from my clueless friends that there is nothing to do among straight people: they’re boring, they don’t know how to have fun, they have trivial needs, and they’re constrained by social standards. On the other hand, I think that the fact that we are having such conversations is already a kind of victory in the field of equalizing society on the gender issue; we already have a compromise position on both sides, and therefore we are ready for a more constructive dialog. The only thing I am afraid of is that this trend towards being a minority may confuse many people who are at the beginning of their creative journey and who are searching for their identity. Not being different does not mean being worse. I wish we could all accept each other for who we are, seek to understand ourselves better without reference to anyone else’s experience, and thus be more useful to ourselves and others.CreatorEconomy, Creators
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